Topic: “Curiosity and ‘Questionsanswers’–How to have a memorable conversation that leads to unforeseen career opportunities!”
\nJennifer Ann Gordon has devoted her life to understanding the power of words to uplift and benefit humanity. She now pours her “heartmindsoul” into helping people as a Christian Science practitioner and enjoys contributing to the Christian Science Journal and the Christian Science Sentinel. In August of 2018, Gordon conducted a workshop on writing for the periodicals with Associate Editor Tony Lobl in Northern California.
\nFrom 1997-2019, Jennifer helped small businesses with marketing communications. She also provided ghostwriting, writing coaching, manuscript review, and editing services for leaders with heart. She has given many talks on her writerly adventures, and created and conducted a writing workshop for women. Jennifer is the author of Writing With Your Ears: 50 Soulful Secrets to Writing (and Living) with Freedom and A Woman\u2019s Mind Half Naked.
\nJennifer has guest-taught at California State Polytechnic University, Pomona; Sacramento State University; University of California, Davis; and the Sacramento Entrepreneurship Academy, where she served as a director from 2007-2013. She is also an artist, a muralist, and a poet.
\nPart of our Net Effect Conversations series: As Chief Operating Officer and President of Color Me Mine Enterprises for 25 years, Mike helped develop it into a market leader in the paint-your-own-pottery industry, growing it into 9 countries and 27 states. He also spent 37 years in the restaurant industry including serving as President and Chief Operating Officer of the Koo Koo Roo casual restaurant chain, where he created its popular take-Home Meal Replacement concept.
\nA graduate in Economics from the University of California, Los Angeles, (UCLA) Mike is a frequent guest lecturer for the UCLA Department of Economics and delivered its commencement address in 2014.
\nA lifelong Christian Scientist, Mike is currently First Reader at First Church of Christ, Scientist, Newport Beach. In addition to reading, he currently teaches the online high school class for The Mother Church Sunday School. He has served as a Christian Science Chaplain for the Orange County Institutions Committee, and was a member of the Christian Science Committee on State Institutions. He is currently serving on the board of Broadview Christian Science Nursing Care in Los Angeles. He is a frequent contributor to the Christian Science periodicals.
\nPart of our Net Effect Conversations series: \nRobin: \u201cToday I\u2019m so excited about Mr. Mike Mooslin being with us today. He has been such a wonderful supporter of the ABF Career Alliance from the very beginning and we love everything that he is and does. He was president of Color Me Mine until his retirement in 2019. He\u2019s also president and chief operating officer of Los Angeles-based Ku Kuru which was a creator of a whole meal replacement concept Michael will tell us more about. He also spent 37 years as a chief operating officer and consultant in the restaurant industry. \n
He\u2019s a graduate in economics from UCLA and a frequent guest lecturer at The UCLA Department of Economics. He\u2019s a lifelong Christian Scientist, currently the first reader at First Church of Christ Scientist in Newport Beach. He\u2019s taught the high school and college Sunday School class in Newport for 50 years, and is currently teaching an online Sunday School class for the First Church of Christ Scientist in Boston, the Mother Church. I could just go on and on but you know the best thing for me to do now is to turn it over to Mike.
\n
Mike: \u201cWell thank you, Robin! Hi everybody! Secret Sauce, huh? I first heard the term \u201csecret sauce\u201d when I was a teenager working in McDonald\u2019s. The company was introducing a new burger called the Big Mac. We all wanted to know what was in the sauce and they told us it was a secret. Thus the name \u201csecret sauce\u201d was coined, and we called it that from that day forward. The question is, what is your secret sauce, your special, unique gift? Why are you here today? Are you looking for employment? Money? Security? If so, you\u2019re not thinking big enough. Why not seek that which inspires you to higher accomplishments? We mustn’t start from a standpoint of a limited need or problem. You know, the Bible doesn\u2019t start\u2026\u2019In the beginning, oh, a problem of mine,\u2019 and the Lord\u2019s Prayer doesn\u2019t start\u2026\u2018My problem which art on earth.\u2019 Of course we both know they start with God, and God must be first and only. And he has much bigger plans for you than just finding a job or making money [Start 7:03][End 7:57]\u2026 Mrs. Eddy writes in Miscellaneous Writings \u2018the mere puppets of the hour are playing only for money and at a fearful state.\u2019 As we glorify God, we tune in to the blessings just waiting for us to discover. God knows what we need even before we ask (quoting a 1979 journal article called Supply and Transparency.) The writer says lack isn\u2019t truly overcome by getting more money, education, or possessions, but by relinquishing the concept of limitation. Real supply isn\u2019t things coming to us. It\u2019s ideas appearing through us, through the transparency, the clarity, purity, and spirituality of enlightened thought [Start 8:13][End 9:08] Let me just repeat that. Lack isn\u2019t truly overcome by getting more money, education, or possession,s but by relinquishing the concept of limitation. Real supply is ideas appearing through us, through the transparency, the clarity, purity, and spirituality of enlightened thought. Enlightened thought–it is a unique gift from God to you. Enlightened thought is your \u2018secret sauce,\u2019 your weapon in the battle, a barrier to entry by others, but that means reading the spiritual landscape as well as the competitive one and focusing on what you are seeing as an unmet need as opposed to simply your own economic game! I\u2019m reminded of the little known story in the book of Numbers about Balak and Balaam. Balak was a King of Judah at the time, and goes to the prophet Balaam, and asks him to curse the children of Israel as he\u2019s fearful they will overtake his country. But Balaam says he needs to pray about it. Well, he did, and that night God said to him \u2018No, the children of Israel are blessed. You may not curse them,\u2019 when Balaam told Balak he could not, since god would not approve. Balak responded by offering Balaam a promotion–power and money, lots of it! Balaam responded that if Balak were to fill his house with gold and silver, he would not betray God\u2019s will. Now what would you or I have done in that situation? All spiritual advancement–and that includes your business success–comes from God revealing his plan to our thought. In other words, inspiration, as opposed to humanly willing, manipulating, or outlining something to happen. When we\u2019re receptive to a higher thought, human consciousness becomes enlightened; new ideas reveal themselves, and we must remain loyal to that inspiration and stay focused on the good it foresees. For example, the intense focus and persistence of some famous modern visionaries, I think the current term is \u2018market disruptors,\u2019–the Wright Brothers, Elon Musk, and Steve Jobs all developed products that change forever the way we live. Wilbur and Orville however didn\u2019t invent flight, Jobs didn\u2019t invent the laws behind the smartphone technology, Musk didn\u2019t invent electricity for vehicles. What they did was discover pre-existing laws that only needed to be discovered and then put into practice. These were ideas that were needed before anyone realized the need for the laws and ideas. Their discoveries have always existed. The laws of flight existed before man was on the Earth, so what was its source? There must have been an intelligent source, something Christian Scientists refer to as divine Mind, the same mind that was also in Christ. So here\u2019s the question of the hour, what is your yet to be discovered idea that you will bring to the world? Think big. No, think bigger. Think about the future needs of mankind. But you need to really listen to what the mind of Christ has in store for you. The key is being responsive to the need even when no one else knows they have a need. [Start 11:11] [End 13:26]
\n
Here are two personal examples. In the 60\u2019s and 70\u2019s, women were entering the workforce in record numbers for this country if they weren\u2019t home cooking meals for their family. Their two incomes were needed for mortgages then, and there was a rising divorce rate, so a lot of working women, and the hottest industry at that time was fast food. In many cases fast food preempted the family tradition of having a home cooked dinner together. Mom didn\u2019t have any time to prepare a meal and I saw a need, being in the restaurant business, a new kind of restaurant that would serve fresh, homemade quality food that working moms could bring home with pride. I called the concept \u2018home meal replacement\u2019 and I wrote some articles about it in the restaurant news and I took over the management of a failing chain called koo karoo as a vehicle for my idea. \u2018Home Meal Replacement\u2019 is now commonplace in the restaurant industry, but it was non-existent at the time. Later in the mid-1990\u2019s as Koo Koo Roo was being sold I got involved with a pottery painting concept called Color Me Mine, that was losing $3 million a year on its 14 pottery painting studios. We were publicly held at the time and the company was being sold. Former Chrysler chairman Lee Iacoco, who was on our board at the time, came in our office and asked me to get rid of Color Me Mine. He said it was a loser and killing the sale of Koo Koo Roo to El Torito, who eventually brought our restaurants, I didn\u2019t want to go to work for El Torito, instead I opted to buy a Color Me Mine. You see, I saw another need that no one was really aware of. There was a need for a communal family bonding concept accomplishing just what home meal replacement did for restaurant. It came to me that Color Me Mine was the perfect answer. You see, when a family celebrates a special event, what do they do? They typically go to a restaurant. Each person around that table expresses their own individual expression by ordering something different on the menu, but at the same time they bond together in a communal activity. And it dawned on me that pottery painting was and is the only activity that duplicates simultaneous communal activity with individual expression. People sit and paint, do their own thing, but they talk. Good idea, but I didn\u2019t have the assets to cover the three million dollars in losses. Nonetheless I held firm to my understanding that the idea came to me with the means needed to be fully realized by listening. You might say my prayers paid off. Funding was made available by a source I had never thought of, and I was able to buy the company and turn it around. By the way, the restaurant chain I bought around \u2018Home Meal Replacement\u2019 achieved the highest sales per outlet of any quick serve food chain in America. And as for Color Me Mine, it became profitable, the only franchise of its kind, for the 30 years that followed and continuing to this day with 150 pottery studios around the globe. You see purpose was a conduit for profitability.
\n
What are you seeing mankind needing today? Open up your entrepreneurial vision, stay focused on that vision, and never become discouraged. Meet all obstacles with prayer and persistence and resilience and you\u2019ll bring the opportunity to fruition. Align profitability with purpose. Remember, then, your yet-to-be discovered ideas will attract into your experience like-minded people who share your vision–funders, team members, and most of all, customers. You will need to research the competitive landscape, to identify what is missing. Put together your team, show proof of concept, write the business plan, and then execute it with confidence because it is purpose-directed. Of course, you\u2019ll need to seek input from others, but beware of those giving advice or attempting to discourage you. Musk, Wilbur and Orvill, and Steve Jobs were all told their ideas would not fly–pardon the pun–and they had severe funding needs, bad press, stiff competition, and many initial failures. But they prevailed; not yielding to discouragement and ignoring opposing human opinions. They were obedient to the vision. Their success was based on the impact of the vision, not the profitability. When God speaks to you, there is no need for advice or confirmation from others. But the big question is, how do you know when it\u2019s truly an inspiration and not just doing your own brainstorming? In my career I have found five surefire signs that told me it was a divinely inspired voice speaking to my thought. I\u2019ll list them for you. First, the new idea is free of self. It\u2019s never about you, it\u2019s always about God, good. It\u2019s about the idea; no self-pity, no self-justification, no self-indulgence, no self-will, or self-promotion. Second, it\u2019s free of fear; it has an immediate rightness and peace about it. Third, it\u2019s free of lack. It comes with everything it needs to be realized. God would not give you a mission without the means to fulfill it. Fourth, what blesses one blesses all. the success of your idea is not at the expense of anyone else, it\u2019s not a zero-sum game, your winning does not involve another\u2019s losing competition is not a factor when you are vision driven. Fifth, unexpected good occurs. That\u2019s the $2,000 check in the mail from the aunt you didn\u2019t even know you had at exactly the time when you needed $2,000. We have all had that kind of experience from one time or another.\u201d [Start 17:16][End 20:35] In other words, God winked at you with a sign you could not have made happen yourself. When those 5 ingredients are all present, you need to stand and take notice–a new idea is being revealed to you! The question is, are you receptive? So enter the closet referred to on page 15 of Science and Health, and quietly listen to the Father shutting out fear, human opinions, and discouragement. He will answer you when you get yourself out of the way and stay mission driven,\u2019 Eddy writes on page 117 of Miscellaneous Writings, \u2018God is the fountain of light, and He illumines one\u2019s way when one is obedient. The disobedient make their moves before God makes His, or make them too late to follow Him. Be sure that God directs your way; then hasten to follow under every circumstance.\u2019
\n
Before we go to questions, I\u2019ll leave you with a prayer by a 17th century theologian poet and writer, the French Roman Catholic archbishop Francois Finland, who wrote \u2018Cheered by the presence of God, I will do each moment without anxiety according to the strength which He shall give me, the work that His divine providence assigns me. I will leave the rest without concern; it\u2019s not my affair.\u2019 [Start 21:58] [End 22:17] Thank you all! And now Robin, I think we\u2019ll take some questions?\u201d
\n
Robin: *asks what\u2019s happening with entrepreneurship today, how do you learn about it, etc/ how he interacts with UCLA and the kind of program they have there*
\n
Mike: \u201cSure, I\u2019ve been a guest speaker for the Econ classes at UCLA for the last six or seven years, and for the last probably 5 or 6 years, I have focused on a subset of entrepreneurial- focused classes called \u2018social entrepreneurship.\u2019 That\u2019s where there would be 50 in a class, and there\u2019d be 5 to 10 teams of 5 each, and they would seek a non-profit that would need funding, a continuous form of revenue generation, and they would have to come up with a for-profit business plan that would support the non-profit. And it\u2019s become so big that every university across the country has a social entrepreneurship program in their Econ or business department. And venture capitalists have expanded to where there\u2019s a whole set of venture capital only focused on social entrepreneurship, which is really well-timed today, it\u2019s where the action is. I\u2019ve been a judge when they have a competition. We just entered one yesterday, in fact, and I mentored one of the teams that ended up winning it. What everyone is looking for are three factors: scalability, sustainability, and barrier-to-entry. A secret sauce is something that is missing from the current competitive landscape. Something fresh, something new that would be very hard to copy or compete against when those three factors are there and it’s a worthwhile idea. There doesn\u2019t seem to be any limit to the funding available so really it just takes inspiration.\u201d [Start 25:46][End 26:39] In the last five years we\u2019ve launched over 200 entrepreneurial ideas at just one university.\u201d
\n
Robin: *asks how he deals with divine inspiration that results in failure/ how he remains receptive to divine intervention*
\n
Mike: \u201cWell you know I go back to the example of the three visionaries I mentioned: Jobs, the Wright Brothers, and Musk. They had so many failures before they succeeded. Sometimes it\u2019s not you doing it, sometimes you need to hook up with a company that shares your vision and you\u2019re just the right person that they\u2019re looking for to help it succeed. Don\u2019t be discouraged by failure. You\u2019ll have multiple failures until you succeed.\u201d[Start 28:26] [End 29:21]
\n
Robin: I think failure is a great educator. I\u2019ve failed so many times with things I\u2019ve started and stopped. People think failure is horrible but even Apple\u2019s most recent IOS 13 was fraught with failure right out of the box, but sometimes you have to get things moving forward so the things you need to work out will reveal themselves. Would you agree with that?
\n
Mike: \u201cYeah, I guess the question goes back to where Adam was hiding himself from God because he was naked, and what God said to him was, \u2018Who told you, you were naked?\u2019
\nSo who told you it was a failure, and not a step in the progress or the development of the idea? And boy I\u2019ll tell you, I\u2019ve fallen on my face over and over again. That\u2019s how you learn each time, and the next time you pull it out.
\n
Robin: *asks if he thinks there\u2019s an entrepreneurial DNA that some people have and others don\u2019t. Can someone who has never been entrepreneurial become so later in their life*
\n
Mike: \u201cThat\u2019s a great question. When you go through the Bible\u2019s heroes, one after the other, it\u2019s the most unlikely group of ne\u2019er do wells and they always responded the same way, \u2018Me? You\u2019ve got to be kidding, no not me.\u2019 It has nothing to do with your inclination, talents, DNA, or anything else. It has to do with what happens when inspiration calls. It comes to you for a reason. You know Moses fought like crazy to get out of the job of going to let the children of Israel go to Pharaoh, and Gideon said, \u2018My family is the weakest of everybody\u2019s here and I\u2019m the weakest in my family.\u2019 And poor Jacob was a con man all his life until he had that little wrestling match that caused him to wake up. So I mean, it has to do with being receptive to a calling. Your first reaction is, you\u2019ve got to be kidding, not me. I don\u2019t have the money, I don\u2019t have the talent, I don\u2019t have the experience. No, no, no! Listen, listen to the idea that comes to you. It may not be an idea you develop, it may be something you share, may be a company you go to work for, but it all comes back to going to God first and listening[Start 32:34] [End 33:06]. I\u2019m thinking of Noah, I\u2019m thinking of Saul; the list goes on and on.
\n
Robin: * Asks about programs at local community colleges across the country and how to determine the difference between which failures are to be lessons, and which ones highlight inspiration as actually human determination?
\n
Mike: \u201cThe answer is always the same. Get yourself out of the way. You know, sometimes we\u2019re our own worst enemy. Father, what would you have me to do? That\u2019s the question. That really takes a sense of humility, a sense of receptivity, a sense of obedience, a sense of expectation, and when the humility is there the human will is gone. And when the fear is gone, it just opens up all sorts of things. You know what the definition of fear is: ingratitude in advance. You are already ungrateful for the bad you think is going to happen. And so, what is love? If perfect love casts out fear, then love must be gratitude in advance. You know, Jesus when he raised Lazarus, didn\u2019t say, \u2018Oh Lazarus, I hope you come forth, a lot of people are watching. It will be embarrassing if I don\u2019t pull this off.\u2019 And the first thing he said was, \u2018Father I thankthee.\u2019 He started off with gratitude, and I love that. When you\u2019re grateful and grateful for what you expect to happen, and know that will happen, then you\u2019re really approaching it from a spiritual standpoint ,a divine standpoint, and human will is never a part of that .[Start 35:30][End 37:26 ] So I hope that answers the question.\u201d
\n
Robin: *Asks how to approach someone in your industry after being away from it for awhile
\n
Mike: \u201cIt doesn\u2019t even matter if you\u2019ve never been in the industry. When you recognize your own natural talents, when you\u2019re an artist or a musician, or you\u2019re into computers, or you are a graphic designer–whatever it is. When you know that\u2019s a passion of yours, (mine was cooking, it was food) when you know that\u2019s a passion, you go out and you meet everybody in that industry. You talk to them, you let them know about your passion and how much you like their company, and why you like their company. And I\u2019ve told this to people over and over, offer to go to work for them for free. Say, let me sweep floors, I just want to learn. There\u2019s not a business owner out there that would not respect that kind of humility, that kind of honesty, that kind of work ethic, that kind of passion. And there\u2019s nothing wrong with going to work for a company and learning the industry from the ground up before you launch your venture. [Start 38:04] [End 38:59]There\u2019s nothing wrong with that.\u201d
\n
Robin: *remarks that Mike\u2019s time at McDonald\u2019s must have been valuable as he moved through years of restaurant business
\n
Mike: \u201cRight, the stories I could tell you about Ray Kroc would keep us here all day, but you know I\u2019ll give you one quick story that\u2019s really fun. I\u2019m 14 years old. I weigh about 100 pounds, a skinny kid, and Saturday morning comes, and Mr. Kroc comes in the back door and I hear, \u2018Mikey, how you doing?\u2019 So Mr. Kroc is here and I\u2019m shaking, and he takes me by the ear–he couldn’t do that today–he takes me by the ear and drags me into the parking lot and shows me weeds in the garden between the parking stalls and wants to know why I didn\u2019t pull them. I say, \u2018It\u2019s not my job.\u2019 He replied, \u2018Never say it\u2019s not your job. You see it, you fix it.\u2019 Then he had me take off my paper hat, my apron, my McDonald\u2019s shirt. Here I am with my white t-shirt, my black pants,–and skinny little kid–he has me open up the trash can. You know, the fiberglass trash can out in the parking lot, and pull out a lot of the papers, the bags, and the cups. He says, \u2018I want you to go up and down the street and I want you to throw them along the street, along the gutter. Don\u2019t let anyone see you. So, ok, all right.\u2019 I begin to do that. I come back and he says \u2018Now, get dressed, put on your new shirt and apron, here\u2019s a lobby pan, a little toy broom, and little bobby pins. I want you to very boldly and in front of everybody go up and down the street and pick up that paper.\u2019 See, he wanted everyone to know how busy McDonald\u2019s was and then he wanted everyone to know what good citizens McDonald\u2019s was. Well, that\u2019s how you did some gorilla marketing in those days when you didn\u2019t have any money for advertising. That\u2019s innovation. That\u2019s entrepreneurial spirit. He never knew any limits, and he always found a way to get the job done.
\n
Robin: * Asks about age-related issues in dealing with senior executives, entrepreneurs.
\n
Mike: \u201cYeah, story of my life. You know when you start with age, it\u2019s the same as starting with unemployment or lack or fear. You\u2019re starting with a problem. Mrs. Eddy founded The Monitor when she was 90 or 88, or something like that. Yeah, the idea doesn\u2019t know how old you are, doesn\u2019t know your gender, doesn\u2019t know your educational background, doesn\u2019t know your bank account balance. And you know, Ray Kroc, when he started McDonald\u2019s, already had a career behind them, so it doesn\u2019t have anything to do with any of that. [Start 42:05] [End 42:50] Although there are places like SCORE for senior citizens to help share their talents with younger people coming up, there\u2019s opportunities in business to go to a company and say to young management, you\u2019d like to be a consultant and help train and give some wisdom to the younger managers coming up. You don\u2019t have any aspirations of advancement, you just want to contribute. There are so many opportunities for seniors. People I know that are retired, their schedule is busier than ever because they\u2019ve learned that they have so much to give and they want to give. And boy when you want to give, there are always takers. So that\u2019s got to be the mode of giving, not starting with the limitation of I\u2019m too old.\u201d
\n
Robin: *Asks where to start, how to turn around a company with a huge debt and find motivation\u201d
\n
Mike: \u201cBoy, there was plenty of bad press about it, too. We were publicly held and everybody in Koo Koo Roo stock was flying high, and the Wall Street Journal was calling it Color Me Blind and gosh it was just horrific. But I knew this idea of communal bonding and individual expression had a need for \u2018mommy and me,\u2019 and that was so strong that I was able to convey that vision with the funders, and the funders had an equal understanding of it, and they agreed. And I saw Color Me Mine strictly as a vehicle, not as a concept that I could make money off of, but a vehicle for this idea. Purpose-driven profitability. And as long as I stayed with the purpose we would be fine. [Start 44:50] [End 45:31] And I had a background in franchising all those years in the restaurant business. I basically ran a publicly held company and we were franchising and we were trying to run these Color Me Mines ourselves. And I saw it being a more community intimate concept that needed an owner on the premises, so the other idea that came to me was franchise.\u201d
\n
Robin: * Asks how to promote franchising and find prospects*
\n
Mike: \u201cNo I never advertised one day for a franchise. I went to the stores, redesigned them, focused around mom, and a hundred percent of our franchisees over the next 30 years were customers that fell in love with what we were providing. And the applications started coming in on their own because they saw the vision with me. They knew I was filling a need they never even thought about. And when that clicked, it was like a light switch going on, and it wasn\u2019t the case of paying down a 3 million dollar debt, the franchising was going to shrink those losses and did so. And it was through franchising that it happened, but I never had to prospect. I never had to do that. I did have to take the first couple of them and virtually give the franchises away to prove the concept. I had to have proof of concept, and I needed a couple of successful franchisees to do that. I mentioned that in my talk that proof of concept is one of the human footsteps you have to take before you lay out a lot of cash and commit yourself to leases and other things like that. You need to prove your vision works and then you\u2019re off to the races. Then it’s going to be hard to stay up with the vision. It will be dragging you along.\u201d[Start 47:31] [End 47:51]
\n
Robin: * Asks if he faced resistance about his changes to business*
\n
Mike: \u201cNo, I mean if I did from an employee, or anyone else, I just politely told them they were working for the wrong company. You have to stay so strictly to the mission and not allow any distraction or anyone to pull you off of what you know to be the reason you\u2019re there. You can\u2019t deviate at all. And, well you look at the growth of Christian Science in the early days and Mrs. Eddy\u2019s strict adherence. When she said that\u2019s the way it was, look at the opposition she had to having the words Christian Science in the Monitor head, you know, The Christian Science Monitor. Everyone tried to talk her out of it. Everyone. Right down to Calvin Frye and Adam Dickey. They all tried to talk her out of it. And one last try, the head of the publishing society walked into her office, and the meeting lasted about three minutes. When he came out all the rest of the directors were in the hallway waiting for the answer and his answer was, \u2018the name of the paper shall be The Christian Science Monitor.\u2019 You know she just wouldn\u2019t tolerate anything that deviated from what her vision was with the revelation that came to her. And that\u2019s an example that\u2019s relevant for all of us. Stick to your guns.\u201d [Start 48:14] [End 49:36].
\n
Robin: *Asks how to juggle the new workload with existing workload*
\n
Mike: \u201cOh there\u2019s always time. There\u2019s no limit there. The way I always ran my companies was something that you guys teach in Albert Baker, and that\u2019s servant leadership. And you want to pull out the best in the team you\u2019ve surrounded yourself with, and so you learn to delegate trust. Support and make other people successful by aligning their thought with that same vision. Like-minded purpose, that\u2019s always the answer and that doesn\u2019t take time, that takes love. When you\u2019re around someone who genuinely cares for you, you\u2019ll do anything for that person. [Start 50:04] [End 50:45]
\n
END
\n
We’re dropping in for a highlight from our conversation with George Nutwell, who served in the U.S. Foreign Service for nearly three decades, and retired as a Senior Foreign Service Officer in 2014. George shared some powerful stories in our session, underlining the importance of love and humility as critical for any job.
\nPart of our Net Effect Conversations series: \nRobin: \u201cI met George many moons ago on a hot August day in Elsa, Illinois at a Principia College football camp. George was the offensive left tackle and I was the defensive right end and we squared off against each other every day and we\u2019ve been close friends ever since. George has a wonderful background with the State Department with law enforcement and security…from Washington to Moscow, to Monrovia, Boston, Baghdad, and Houston. Today we want to see what\u2019s on George\u2019s mind and see what kind of important things you\u2019re talking about thinking about today George.\u201d\n
George: \u201cWell I think everyone has been affected by what\u2019s been happening the past month or two months and the thing that I\u2019ve noticed the most is that there is a lot of fear out there, you know there\u2019s fear on both sides of the political spectrum. Either people are afraid of disease of or economic turmoil\u2026I feel that when it comes to fear there is really no debate there’s no argument, there\u2019s nothing that you can do to convince someone that they shouldn\u2019t be fearful. The only way that have ever overcome fear myself, or helped anyone else to overcome it, was really just bringing a higher sense of love into the situation. In my job it was all about diplomacy and peacemaking, and my job was to protect the peacemakers to enable them to make peace. So I am very sensitive to trying to bring two sides together, trying to get people to find agreement and that\u2019s really what I\u2019ve tried to do all my life and in my career. Even though I was on the security side, I was still trying to work things out, whether it be a foreign government or different US government agencies, or just trying to get people to come together for a common solution, overcoming their fears that it couldn\u2019t be done\u2026I would always fall back on my faith, my Christian Science background which is just to love people. Of course it\u2019s not a Christian Science thing it\u2019s a Christian thing. Jesus, you know, giving us the Golden Rule, and all through my career,that really is the best form of leadership. It\u2019s operating according to the Golden Rule, whether you\u2019re dealing with people that are below you, or people that are above you, that principle is what ends up making things work, that brings a sense of peace to the situation.\u201d [Start 8:28] [end 9:42]
\n
Robin: \u201cWell you know George, it\u2019s interesting when you say that, I think about the parallels to today\u2026the differing opinions there are\u2026there just seems to be this huge gap\u2026 how do you bridge that, I mean how do you \u2026 help people think about this?\u201d
\n
George: \u201cWell, of course you\u2019ve always got to think about others, you know, how do they perceive things? You can\u2019t operate based on what you think about it. You’ve really got to include others in that process and when you take that step to think, okay, well, how do they feel or what is their fear, or what is their concern? Well then you\u2019re more apt to be able to act in a way or to say something which is helpful, that is calming. I found that, and really all through my career I was in environments where there was a lot of fear\u2026 and so I always leaned on just the simple ideas that, you know, we\u2019re all the image of God, and it doesn\u2019t matter what they believe, or what they\u2019re afraid of, they\u2019re the image of God too. And I\u2019ve had to deal with people that thought very differently than I do, and I really just got used to the fact that people think differently, but that doesn\u2019t make them any less of the image of God. And as I approach them in that way I have found so many situations that seem very difficult and hostile just melt away, even though we were coming from two different directions.\u201d [Start 10:42] [End 12:02]
\n
Robin: \u201cIt seems so simple George.\u201d
\n
George: \u201cYeah, well you know, my experience is that it is simple \u2026 and of course what happens, I think is people tend to complicate things they get caught up in you know they get caught up in you know whatever they have come to believe over a period of time of what they think, is the right way of doing things, and they forget that, you know, the most simple thing you know, what Jesus was asked, you know what\u2019s the most important commandment? And he said to love God, and to love our neighbor as yourself. He said everything in the Bible hangs on that. And you know, when I was in the prison ministry I was dealing with people of all different kinds of Christian faiths. I dealt with Muslims, I dealt with Jews, I dealt with atheists, I dealt with Satanists, and I found out the only thing that would bring unity to the conversation was the idea of love. That was the only thing, because of all of those other theological dogmatic discussions and debates \u2026they all ended up in disagreements and arguments. But whatever I brought the conversation back to love, everything just became peaceful and quiet because no one disagrees with the idea of love.\u201d
\n
Robin: \u201c\u2026 so what does the future look like, how are we going to move forward? These are the kinds of things that are on people\u2019s minds. So how have you gotten through some of the challenges in your past \u2026 with respect to your career and facing different obstacles in your way?\u201d
\n
George: \u201cWell I\u2019ll share a couple of instances. Most of my career I was in an environment where there was a lot of fear, but there’s two things that come to mind. One, I was in a newly independent Soviet republic in Central Asia and the crime there was just unbelievable. People were afraid to go out after dark. They were even afraid in their own houses. I mean within two weeks of me arriving there we had armed assaults on Americans and other westerners, we had home invasions, we had beatings, robberies, rapes on the street, we had a murder of an American. It was probably the scariest environment that I had ever experienced, and there wasn\u2019t really seeming any answer to it. But I was doing all of the things according to my job. I was meeting with the police, I was contributing where I could, I was bringing in experts from the US, I was sending local authorities, doctors. I was briefing the Americans on how to be safe, I would go out at night time, we had patrols. I mean we were doing everything humanly possible to try to create as safe of an environment, but there\u2019s always a certain point where humanly there is just nothing left you can do. And there was one gang in particular that was committing a number of the crimes against foreigners, and Americans, and you know the police force was just developing, and there was a lot of corruption and there was a lot of inexperience as to how to deal with such things. And so it was something where I would always bring prayer into the situation. You know I would do everything humanly I could, but still I had a daily practice of prayer. And one day as I\u2019m about to leave my apartment to go the embassy, and I lived in an apartment building where I was the only American, and I had my chevy S-10 blazer parked outside, and everyone knew there was an American living in that building. I remembered that I had promised to pray for someone in the family who had a job interview and so I went back to my living room and I sat down and I spent about a half hour praying for that person, and praying that they would reflect the mind of God, and that they would know what to say and what to do and you know, that God would lead the way. And certainly knowing that one Mind was in control of everything. And so that was about an additional 30 minutes, and I went down, and I got in my SUV and I went off to work. Later that day the local police came to the embassy and said, we have a report to share with you that\u2019s very important. And the report was that this gang that everyone had been looking for had targeted an American, and they were waiting outside his apartment building, and they had weapons, they had rope, there was five or six of them. They were prepared to kidnap this American, and so at the bottom it said what the address was. Well it was my address. They were preparing to kidnap me that day, but during that 30 minutes, because they had showed up to be there right as I would normally come out, during that 30 minutes I was praying. One of the neighbors looked out, saw these guys sort of, you know, hanging around, and called the police. And in this country that\u2019s really an unusual thing, first that a neighbor actually would get involved in looking after their community that way, and second that they\u2019d call the police, and third that the police would actually show up. The police showed up, they detained them, took them to the police station, and they admitted to all of the robberies and the assaults on Americans and westerners, and they were put away for a long time. And so it\u2019s a good example where, you know, I tried a lot of things humanly to help those guys get wrapped up, but the thing that did it was me sitting down and praying for my family member for 30 minutes and that was an incredible example.\u201d [Start 19:45] [End 20:20]
\n
\u201cThe other one was in Baghdad at the end of my career I volunteered to go to Baghdad to be in charge of security at the US embassy\u2026and so while I was there, there were about 50 rocket attacks on the embassy and that had been in an I mean that had been going on going on for a number of years and it it just seemed that there\u2019s nothing that could be done about it we had the US military we had the friendly Iraqi forces we had we had everyone that you could possibly have to try and resolve the situation and yet it continued to go on and and so while I was there I prayed every day about it and I was protected I had a month I have several really close calls myself and some people who work closely with me had very close calls but everyone was safe but there were other people that did lose their lives and were injured and I kept thinking to myself you know what more can I do in my prayers to do something about this to put an end to it and one day as I opened up the bible and I\u2019m reading in the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus says to pray for your enemies and I realized well you know I have been praying for myself, I have been praying for the people I work with, I pray for family and friends but I\u2019ve never prayed for my enemies before and right now I\u2019ve got some pretty serious enemies.\u201d
\n
Robin: \u201cI would say yeah\u201d
\n
George: \u201cAnd so I just started doing that I made that a part of my daily prayerful work I was praying for the guys that were firing the rockets and that\u2019s just as simple as as knowing that they too are the children of god and that God speaks to them just as God speaks to me and within a couple of weeks the rocket attacks stopped and no that didn\u2019t happen anymore while I was there in fact there hadn\u2019t been any rocket attacks in the past ten years and there were just a couple in this past december january when you know there\u2019s a bit of a flare up there but those rockets didn\u2019t hurt anybody and I think most of them just went over the compound so I learned there that you know we have to pray for everybody we\u2019ve got to pray for the people that are opposed to us the most against us or what we believe or what we think or what we\u2019re doing and only then do we do we gain the peace that we\u2019re looking for.\u201d [Start 22:15][End 23:16]
\n
Robin: \u201cWell I love it I\u2019m gonna move on to our next and final question so in this environment that we\u2019re in today, how do you have a conversation or should you be having conversations with different professionals you know people that aren\u2019t necessarily where you are in your career path or maybe even not in your career and I pulled this down from the Wall Street Journal today where it says you know there are silver linings out there there are things that are positive there are openings that if we just take advantage that we can find them, what are your thoughts about that George?\u201d
\n
George: \u201cWell you know since I was in that career for 27 years it had been a while since I was in a situation where I was in a situation where I really needed to start reaching out to different people to find out what next steps to take while throughout my career I would certainly talk to mentors and people within my my agency but when I decided to retire, I realized well okay what am I going to do after this and you know these are big steps I started doing job interviews and networking and you know working on my resume and doing all that kind of stuff and I realized you know I really don\u2019t know too much about this stuff and so I just started calling up people or contacting people who had made that transition into retirement and I would go and have lunch with people I would talk to them on the phone I would do it via email or messaging and I would just say look would you mind if I could bend your ear for a while and just find out you know how did you make that transition from working to a new career or maybe its a similar career but it\u2019s something different and and I found that people were very happy to sit down with me or have lunch with me or whatever it was and talk about their experiences and I would just listen and I certainly had questions but I found in that process where I was starting to interview and I was starting to have to make those kinds of decisions that whether I was in an interview I would think about these people and the things they told me and they really were helping to guide me along the way with what questions to ask and what things to to consider about well would this be the right job the right fit the right match for me for them and that there was a lot of things that helped me to make a lot of critical decisions over that period of time you know I mean it could be things like you know for that kind of job what would the pay be or what kinds of things would I be responsible for or you know what is it like to work you know for a CEO or and you know all of these different things that I hadn\u2019t been accustomed to you know working for the government and so certainly people who had worked for the government and left and then went on out into the private sector you know they had a lot of things feeling and things they had experienced in that process and you know I I can\u2019t recommend it enough for people whether you\u2019re in a career and thinking about a change or retirement or you\u2019re looking for a job or whatever is it you know people love to help you as long as you have a very humble and receptive attitude you know when you go and talk to them.\u201d
\n
Robin: \u201cWell I think that\u2019s terrific advice I think those are great ideas and thoughts George and I think that those will resonate certainly with our audience and I want to get to kind of our top three takeaways, talk about these for a moment George.\u201d
\n
George: \u201cYeah well you know as I said you know love in the end you know you can do all kinds of things humanly I mean and if you\u2019re good at your job there\u2019s no end of you know the experience you have and the different ways that you can accomplish things but often the only way is really to add more love into that situation to the people you\u2019re dealing with to the challenge to your opposition to whatever it is that you\u2019re dealing with you know just add more love to that situation and and that\u2019s what\u2019s going to really enable you to overcome it [Start][End 28:41]
\n
Robin: \u201cI like it and and and have that humility that you talked about earlier you know it\u2019s okay if you don\u2019t know the answers it\u2019s okay if you don\u2019t even know some of the questions but if you just start the conversation that\u2019s where that humility comes in and that other person will see that and you know you just move right along.\u201d
\n
: Yeah humility is it\u2019s really important it for for job success and I have found that if you\u2019re willing to humble yourself and ask questions and to show that you don\u2019t know everything people bend over backwards to help you and all throughout my career everything that I have ever done I have found that when I humbled myself to others to go to them for ideas or counsel or or helping what you\u2019re doing I mean I just found that they\u2019re always they\u2019re always willing to lend you a hand.\u201d [Start 29:04][End 29:48]
\n
Robin: \u201cYou know the idea that that fear you know removing that fear of a challenge something that\u2019s kind of outside your comfort zone or maybe outside your box but you say it\u2019s the path to growth and promotion\u201d
\n
George: \u201cYeah you know looking back at my career every major promotion i got with my job was when I was willing to stand up put my hand up and say hey I\u201dll take that on when everyone you know is kind of backing away and everyone\u2019s quiet and you can hear crickets you know that person that steps upland says yeah I\u2019ll take it I\u2019ll do it.\u201d
\n
Robin: \u201cWell I bet there were plenty of crickets whenever you were volunteering to go into the missile zone for crying out loud.\u201d
\n
George: \u201cbut that you know out of that came a promotion every every one of those challenges whenever I took it on every one of those a promotion came out of it and of course a lot of personal growth and development and character you know all of those things that are really are the things that we all want you know that we we you know money\u2019s great right and things are great but really we we want growth we want development we want opportunities and those come when we are willing to stand up and raise our hand and say yeah I\u2019ll take it on I\u2019ll do it and and I can\u2019t recommend that enough.\u201d [Start 30:37][End 31:24]
\n
Robin: \u201cYou know our buddy Chris Helms says you know \u2018hey George, but doesn\u2019t our world today embrace leaders that are not particularly humble? Why do you think this would be how come why are people embracing these leaders that you know don\u2019t seem very humble?\u201d
\n
George: \u201cWell you know I I think if you look throughout history there are a lot of leaders that get into high positions but if you look at the people who have really made a difference and change the world those are people who are really they\u2019re willing to out their neck on the line they are willing to give up everything for doing what\u2019s right and those are the people that are remembered in history and I mean two people come to mind from American history are Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King you know those are two people that really changed the world and they were willing to put it all out there you know you know that as far as I can tell and I\u2019m sure maybe somebody will correct me but the only president that I know of who ever went out onto the battlefield and had bullets whizzing by his head was Abraham Lincoln and that\u2019s the kind of leadership that really makes people dig deep and say hey if he\u2019s willing to do that I\u2019m willing to do whatever it takes and of course Martin Luther King you know willing to put his life on the line every single day for what he believed in I mean that\u2019s leadership that\u2019s what people remember and if you\u2019re in the military or you\u2019re in any kind of law enforcement job you\u2019ll you\u2019ll hear people say that the leaders they\u2019ll follow anywhere are the ones that get in front and lead the way they go into harm\u2019s way they don\u2019t stand in the back and watch to see what\u2019s going on they take the lead and so not everyone is going to go into battle or war but those same principles really are what changed the world and if we\u2019re talking about really having an impact on the world or our country that\u2019s what you gotta do.\u201d
\n
Robin: \u201cWell I appreciate that so very much and so I I love the things you\u2019re saying George I think it\u2019s really great a few final questions if anybody has any questions for George please put them in the Q&A how do you discern so one of the questionsI thought was an interesting question how can you discern the character of a prospective business contact just from the internet did you when you were reaching out trying to make new contacts did any of that ever cross your mind or do you ever have to face that or wonder I\u2019m not sure if I want to talk to this person or not.\u201d
\n
George: \u201cWell certainly you know if they\u2019re respectful if they\u2019re expressing that humility like like I talked about you know I would say respect and humility are things that you can recognize and I I definitely can I Mean I can feel that whether even if it\u2019s you know an electronic message it\u2019s just something you can feel from their words in the way that they\u2019re addressing you or approaching you and I think that that\u2019s a good sign of sincerity.\u201d
\n
Robin: \u201cI had a really so this question is a little long but let me just see if i can paraphrase it a little bit. So I have an independent artist who works with individuals from other countries and you know working with all of the different countries that you have maybe you have some ideas here but they\u2019re not allied so they have different values and they do business differently but they still how do you still remain faithful to the things that are important to you when you have all of these different ideas I mean you mentioned a little bit about working in the prison with all of the different faiths and different values, this person is asking how do you stay true to yourself even though the places the people may have a different set of values?\u201d
\n
George: \u201cWell you know that would come up because in my job people wanted opportunities to come to the U.S. they wanted to do me favors so they could get visas and trips and just all kinds of things when you work for the embassy you find there\u2019s a whole lot of people out there that want to become your friend and I I just always stuck to what the rules and the l was and my personal standard of principles and ethics and and I\u2019m always looking to help people but I had to help them within those you know within those lanes and I would find ways to help people maybe it wasn\u2019t the way they were looking for help but I would still find a way to help them and and I think and I would still be respected in the process and sometimes I would I would just simply say you know I can\u2019t do that that\u2019s just not right and and and if I was being respectful to them they would accept that they would understand that.\u201d [Start 36:32][End 37:19]
\n
Robin: \u201cWell when you were making career changes here\u2019s another question when you were making a career change, how did you go about timing. Why all of the sudden make this career change or why why volunteer for that what advice do you give for someone looking to change careers right now?\u201d
\n
George: \u201cWell I mean there were different things that I was thinking about but a big part of it was family and you know because I had spent a lot of years overseas and my last overseas assignment was Baghdad Iraq and I certainly did a whole ot of self reflecting during that time while I was there and it really caused me to think about what is most important to me and the two things that i thought about were my family and service to god how do I serve God better? And in the end during that because I spent like three years networking talking to people I was really preparing to set myself up for a nice big private sector job after the government because a lot of people in government do that they have those opportunities and in the end I came to this conclusion that well the only way I can focus on family and try to serve God was basically I was going to retire and I decided to do the chaplain work now of course you don\u2019t get paid for chaplain work.\u201d
\n
Robin: \u201cI remember George I mean it seemed like you were being offered jobs with some pretty high profile organizations and you were the one saying okay this is how much I want to make and this is the kind of work I would like and you know and then you\u2019re saying you ended up choosing a job that you\u2019re volunteering?\u201d
\n
George: \u201cYeah I had I had offers from a professional sports franchise and from oil companies to advise them on security issues and in the end I realized that really I needed to be a to be as a lot of people say I wanted to feed my soul, that\u2019s what I really wanted I wanted to feel good knowing that while I had served Uncle SamI was very proud and grateful to do that but I was looking for a new kind of service and so that\u2019s what led me in to the prison ministry and also you know spending a lot of time with the family and I\u2019d be able to coach you know little league baseball and go to ballet class and you know all that kind of stuff so those were the kinds of things that drove that decision.\u201d
\n
Robin: \u201cWell I think those are wonderful comments and I just appreciate so very much all of the wonderful inspiration and ideas I\u2019m going to launch our poll I would appreciate if everyone could take a few moments and complete this poll it\u2019s only 4 questions it will take you a couple of minutes at the most and tell us if you enjoyed our program and um you know and if it just give us your feedback we really appreciate it just so you know\u2026\u201d *gives more information about how to stay connected with ABF and George, job opportunities, and ABF updates*
\n\u201c… and George we thank you so very much today for helping us think about this environment with an inspired perspective bible-based real quality good thinking it\u2019s so so needed today and we just so appreciate you\u2019re willing to be a career ally George has been with us from the very beginning just appreciate your support and we thank everyone so much for everything for being here I\u2019m gonna shut down the poll and I\u2019m gonna close out this wonderful episode for with our good buddy George and say good day goodnight and thank you all for being here.\u201d
\n
George: \u201cThank you Robin for everything you do\u201d
\n
Robin: \u201cThank you George we love you man have a great day.\u201d
\n
George: \u201cTake care see you brother\u201d
\n
Edited version:
\nRobin: *introduces george and personal background, introduce george\u2019s job and adk about his thoughts today*
\n
George: \u201cWell I think everyone has been affected by what\u2019s been happening the past month or so two months and the thing that I\u2019ve noticed the most is that there is a lot of fear out there, you know there\u2019s fear on both sides of the political spectrum. Either people are afraid of disease of economic turmoil there\u2019s there\u2019s a fear of of taking a step to far or not far enough you know no matter where you turn there\u2019s just a lot of fear and um I feel that when it comes to fear there is really no debate there’s no argument, there\u2019s nothing that you can do to convince someone that they shouldn\u2019t be fearful and the only way that have ever overcome fear myself or helped anyone else to overcome it was really just bringing a higher sense of love into the situation. In my job it was all about diplomacy and peacemaking and my job was to protect the peacemakers to enable them to make peace and so I am very sensitive to trying to bring two sides together, trying to get people to find agreement and that\u2019s really what I\u2019ve tried to do all my life and in my career even though I was on the security side, I was still trying to work things out whether it be a foreign government or different US government agencies or just trying to get people to come together for a common solution overcoming their fears that it couldn\u2019t be done that the two sides uh you know have there you know that it\u2019s a stalemate of some kind and I would always fall back on my faith my faith my Christian Science background which is just to love people. Of course it\u2019s not a Christian Science thing it\u2019s a Christian thing it was Jesus you know giving us the golden rule and all through my career I really that that really is the best form of leadership it\u2019s operating according to the golden rule whether you\u2019re dealing with people that are below you or people that are above you that that idea that principle is what ends up making things work that brings a sense of peace to the situation.\u201d [Start 8:28] [end 9:42]
\nRobin: * asks how to bridge the gap between opposing sides in an argument and help people go \u201cwell here\u2019s a way to think about this\u201d*
\n
George: \u201cwell of course you\u2019ve always got to to think about others you know how do they perceive things? You can\u2019t you can\u2019t operate based on what you what you think about it you’ve really got to include others in that process and when you take that step to think okay well how do they feel or what is their fear or what is their concern well then you\u2019re more apt to be able to act in a way or to say something which is helpful that is calming I found that and really all through my career I was in environments where there was a lot of fear uh there was a lot of fear about uh people\u2019s lives and so I always leaned on just the simple ideas that you know we\u2019re all the image of God and it doesn\u2019t matter what they believe or what they\u2019re afraid of they\u2019re the image of god too and I\u2019ve had to deal with people that thought very different than I do and I really just got used to the fact that people think differently but that doesn\u2019t make them any less of the image of god and as I approach them in that way I have found so many situations that seem very difficult and hostile just melt away, even though we were coming from two different directions.\u201d [Start 10:42] [End 12:02]
\n
Robin: \u201cIt seems so simple George.\u201d
\n
George: \u201cyeah well you know my experience is that it is simple it is simple and and of course what happens I think is people tend to complicate things they get caught up in you know they get caught up in you know whatever they have come to believe over a period of time of what they think is the right way of doing things something and as a result they forget that you know the most simple thing you know what Jesus was asked you know what\u2019s the most important commandment and he said to love god and to love our neighbor as yourself he said everything in the bible hangs on that and you know what when I was in the prison ministry you know I was dealing with people of all different kinds of christian faiths I dealt with muslims I dealt with Jews I dealt with atheists I dealt with Satanists and I found out the only thing that would bring unity to the conversation was the idea of love. That was the only thing because of all of those other theological dogmatic discussions and debates was all they ended up was disagreements arguments anger nut whatever I brought the conversation back to love it just everything just became peaceful and quiet because no one disagrees with the idea of love.\u201d
\n
Robin: *asks what the future looks like, how do we move forward, how have you gotten through some of the challenges in his past are relatable to today with respect to his career and facing different obstacles in his way*
\n
George: \u201cWell I\u2019ll share a couple of instances most of my career was in an environment where there was a lot of fear but there’s two things that come to mind one I was in a new newly independent Soviet republic in Central Asia and the crime there was just unbelievable really people were afraid to go out after dark they were even afraid in their own houses we had a we just I mean within two weeks of me arriving there we ad armed assaults on Americans and other westerners, we had home invasions, we had beatings, robberies, rapes on the street, we had a murder of an American it was it was probably thhe scariest environment that I had ever experienced and there wasn\u2019t really seeming any answer to it but I was doing all of the things according to my job, I was meeting with the police I was contributing where I could, I was bringing in experts from thew US, I was sending local authorities doctors you know how to deal with the cr5ime and you know all of the different aspects of crime. I was briefing the Americans on how to be safe, I would go out at night time, we had patrols, I mean we were doing everything humanly possible to try to create as safe of an environment as we could but there\u2019s always a certain point where humanly there is just nothing left you can do and there was one gang in particular that was committing a number of the crimes against foreigners and Americans and you know the police force was developing there was a lot of corruption and there was a lot of inexperience as to how to deal with such things and so I it\u2019s something I would always bring prayer into the situation you know I would do everything humanly I could, but still i had a daily practice of prayer and one day as I\u2019m about to leave my apartment to go the embassy and I lived in an apartment building where I was the only American and I had my chevy s-10 blazer parked outside and everyone knew there was an American living in that building. I remembered that I promised to pray for someone in the family who had a job interview and so I went back to my living room and I sat down and I spent about a half hour praying for that person and praying that they would reflect the mind of God and that they would know what to say and what to do and you know that god would lead the way and certainly knowing that one mind was in control of everything and and so that was about an additional 30 minutes and I went down and I got my SUV and I went off to work. Later that day the local police came to the embassy and said we have a report to share with you that\u2019s very important and the report was that this gang that everyone had been looking for had targeted an American and they were waiting outside his apartment building and they had weapons, they had rope, there was five or six of them, they were prepared to kidnap this American and so at the bottom it said what the address was well it was my address, they were preparing to kidnap me that day, but during that 30 minutes because they had showed up to be there right as I would normally come out during that 30 minutes I was praying, one of the neighbors looked out, saw these guys sort of you know hanging around and called the police and in this country that\u2019s really an unusual thing, first that a neighbor actually would get involved in looking after their community that way and second that they\u2019d call the police and third that the police would actually show up.\u201d
\n
George: \u201cThe police showed up, they detained them, took them to the police station, and they admitted to all of the robberies and the assaults on Americans and Westerners and they were put away for a long time. So it\u2019s a good example where, you know, I tried a lot of things humanely to help those guys get wrapped up. But the thing that did it was me sitting down and praying for my family member for 30 minutes, and that that was an incredible example.\u201d [Start 19:45] [End 20:20]
\n
George: \u201cThe other one was in Baghdad at the end of my career. I volunteered to go to Baghdad to be in charge of security at the US embassy. \u201cVolunteered, yeah, and so while I was there, there were about 50 rocket attacks on the embassy and that had been going on for a number of years. And it` just seemed that there was nothing that could be done about it. We had the US military, we had the friendly Iraqi forces, we had everyone that you could possibly have to try and resolve the situation, and yet it continued to go on. And so while I was there I prayed every day about it and I was protected. I had a month where I had several really close calls myself, and some people who work closely with me had very close calls, but everyone was safe. But there were other people that did lose their lives and were injured and I kept thinking to myself you know, what more can I do in my prayers to do something about this, to put an end to it. And one day as I opened up the Bible and I\u2019m reading in the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus says to pray for your enemies. And I realized, well you know, I have been praying for myself, I have been praying for the people I work with, I pray for family and friends, but I\u2019ve never prayed for my enemies before, and right now I\u2019ve got some pretty serious enemies.\u201d
\n
Robin: \u201cI would say yeah\u201d
\n
George: \u201cAnd so I just started doing that I made that a part of my daily prayerful work. I was praying for the guys that were firing the rockets and that\u2019s just as simple as knowing that they, too, are the children of God and that God speaks to them just as God speaks to me. And within a couple of weeks, the rocket attacks stopped and that didn\u2019t happen anymore while I was there. In fact there hadn\u2019t been any rocket attacks in the past ten years, and there were just a couple in this past December and January, when you know, there was a bit of a flare-up, but those rockets didn\u2019t hurt anybody, and I think most of them just went over the compound. So I learned there that, you know, we have to pray for everybody. We\u2019ve got to pray for the people that are opposed to us, the most against us, or what we believe, or what we think, or what we\u2019re doing, and only then do we gain the peace that we\u2019re looking for.\u201d [Start 22:15][End 23:16]
\n
Robin: *asks, in the environment we\u2019re in today, should one be having conversations with different professionals they know, people who aren\u2019t necessarily where you are in your career path, or maybe even not even in your career*
\n
George: \u201cWell you know, since I was in that career for 27 years, it had been a while since I was in a situation where I really needed to start reaching out to different people to find out what next steps to take. I would certainly talk to mentors and people within my agency, but when I decided to retire, I realized well, okay, what am I going to do after this? And you know these are big steps. I started doing job interviews, and networking, and working on my resume and doing all that kind of stuff. And I realized, you know, I really don\u2019t know too much about this stuff. And so I just started calling up people, or contacting people who had made that transition into retirement. And I would go and have lunch with people, I would talk to them on the phone, I would do it via email or messaging, and I would just say, look, would you mind if I could bend your ear for a while, and just find out, you know, how did you make that transition from working, to a new career. Or maybe it\u2019s a similar career, but it\u2019s something different. And I found that people were very happy to sit down with me, or have lunch with me, or whatever it was, and talk about their experiences. And I would just listen. And I certainly had questions, but I found in that process, where I was starting to interview, and I was starting to have to make those kinds of decisions, that whether I was in an interview, I would think about these people and the things they told me, and they really were helping to guide me along the way with what questions to ask and what things to consider. Would this be the right job, right fit, the right match for me, and there were a lot of things that helped me to make a lot of critical decisions over that period of time\u2026I can\u2019t recommend it enough for people, whether you\u2019re in a career and thinking about a change, or retirement, or you\u2019re looking for a job–whatever it is. You know, people love to help you as long as you have a very humble and receptive attitude when you go and talk to them.\u201d
\n
Robin: *asks George to talk about the top three takeaways*
\n
George: \u201cYeah well you know as I said you know, love. In the end, you know, you can do all kinds of things, humanly, And if you\u2019re good at your job there\u2019s no end \u2026[to] the different ways that you can accomplish things. But often the only way is really to add more love into that situation, to the people you\u2019re dealing with, to the challenge ,to your opposition, to whatever it is that you\u2019re dealing with, you know, just add more love to that situation and that\u2019s what\u2019s going to really enable you to overcome it.\u201d [Start][End 28:41]
\n
George: Yeah, humility is really important for job success. I have found that if you\u2019re willing to humble yourself, and ask questions, and to show that you don\u2019t know everything, people bend over backwards to help you. All throughout my career, everything that I have ever done, I have found that when I humbled myself to others, to go to them for ideas or counsel or helping, I found that they\u2019re always willing to lend you a hand.\u201d [Start 29:04][End 29:48]
\n
Robin: \u201cI like it. Have that humility that you talked about earlier. You know, it\u2019s okay if you don\u2019t know the answers. It\u2019s okay if you don\u2019t even know some of the questions. But if you just start the conversation, that\u2019s where that humility comes in, and that other person will see that and, you know, you just move right along.\u201d
\n
Robin: *asks if he thinks the idea of removing that fear of a challenge, something that\u2019s kind of outside your comfort zone is the path to growth and promotion*
\n
George: \u201cYeah you know looking back at my career every major promotion i got with my job was when I was willing to stand up put my hand up and say, hey I\u201dll take that on, when everyone is kind of backing away, and everyone\u2019s quiet. And you can hear crickets when that person steps up and says, yeah I\u2019ll take it .I\u2019ll do it.\u201d
\n
Robin: \u201cWell I bet there were plenty of crickets whenever you were volunteering to go into the missile zone.\u201d
\n
George: \u201cBut, you know, out of that came a promotion. Every one of those challenges, whenever I took it on, a promotion came out of it, and of course, a lot of personal growth and development and character. You know, all of those things that are really the things that we all want. You know, money\u2019s great, right, and things are great, but really we want growth, we want development, and we want opportunities. And those come when we are willing to stand up and raise our hand and say, yeah, I\u2019ll take it on, I\u2019ll do it. I can\u2019t recommend that enough.\u201d [Start 30:37][End 31:24]
\n
Robin: *asks why he thinks the world is embracing leaders that are not particularly humble*
\n
George: \u201cWell, you know, I think if you look throughout history there are a lot of leaders that get into high positions. But if you look at the people who have really made a difference and change the world, those are people who are willing to put their neck on the line. They are willing to give up everything for doing what\u2019s right. Those are the people that are remembered in history. Two people come to mind from American history: Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King, Jr. Those are two people who really changed the world, and they were willing to put it all out there. I\u2019m sure maybe somebody will correct me, but the only president I know of who ever went out onto the battlefield and had bullets whizzing by his head was Abraham Lincoln. And that\u2019s the kind of leadership that really makes people dig deep and say, hey, if he\u2019s willing to do that, I\u2019m willing to do whatever it takes. And of course, Martin Luther King, you know, willing to put his life on the line every single day for what he believed. That\u2019s leadership, that\u2019s what people remember, and if you\u2019re in the military or you\u2019re in any kind of law enforcement job, you\u2019ll hear people say that the leaders they\u2019ll follow anywhere are the ones that get in front and lead the way. They go into harm\u2019s way. They don\u2019t stand in the back and watch to see what\u2019s going on. They take the lead. And so not everyone is going to go into battle, or war, but those same principles are what changed the world, and if we\u2019re talking about really having an impact on the world, or our country, that\u2019s what you gotta do.\u201d
\n
Robin: *asks how you can discern the character of a prospective business contact just from the internet when you were reaching out trying to make new contacts or wonder \u201cI\u2019m not sure if I want to talk to this person or not\u201d*
\n
George: \u201cWell, certainly, you know, if they\u2019re respectful, if they\u2019re expressing that humility, I would say respect and humility are things that you can recognize\u2026I can feel that, whether it\u2019s an electronic message, it\u2019s just something you can feel from their words in the way that they\u2019re addressing you or approaching you. I think that\u2019s a good sign of sincerity.\u201d
\n
Robin: *asks how to stay true to yourself even though the places or the people may have a different set of values*
\n
George: \u201cWell you know that would come up because, in my job, people wanted opportunities to come to the U.S. They wanted to do me favors so they could get visas and trips and just all kinds of things. When you work for the embassy, you find there\u2019s a whole lot of people out there that want to become your friend. I just always stuck to the rules and my personal standard of principles and ethics. I\u2019m always looking to help people, but I had to help them within those lanes. I would find ways to help people. Maybe it wasn\u2019t the way they were looking for help, but I would still find a way to help them, and I think I would still be respected in the process. Sometimes I would just simply say, you know, I can\u2019t do that. That\u2019s just not right, and if I was being respectful to them, they would accept that, they would understand that.\u201d [Start 36:32][End 37:19]
\n
Robin: *asks when he was making a career change, how did he go about timing/ advice for switching careers*
\n
George: \u201cWell I mean there were different things that I was thinking about, but a big part of it was family. I had spent a lot of years overseas, and my last overseas assignment was Baghdad Iraq, and I certainly did a whole lot of self-reflecting during that time, and it really caused me to think about what is most important to me. And the two things that i thought about were my family and service to God, how do I serve God better? And \u2026 I was really preparing to set myself up for a nice big private sector job after the government. A lot of people in government do that. They have those opportunities. And in the end, I came to the conclusion that the only way I can focus on family, and try to serve God, was basically I was going to retire. And I decided to do the chaplain work. Now of course you don\u2019t get paid for chaplain work.\u201d
\n
George: \u201cYeah I had offers from a professional sports franchise, and from oil companies, to advise them on security issues. And in the end, I realized that really I needed to \u2026 feed my soul, that\u2019s what I really wanted. I wanted to feel good, knowing that while I had served Uncle Sam and I was very proud and grateful to do that, but I was looking for a new kind of service. And so that\u2019s what led me in to the prison ministry. And also, you know, spending a lot of time with the family, and I\u2019d be able to coach little league baseball, and go to ballet class. And you know, those were the kinds of things that drove that decision.\u201d
\n
Robin: \u201cWell I think those are wonderful comments and I just appreciate so very much all of the wonderful inspiration and ideas…and George we thank you so very much today for helping us think about this environment with an inspired perspective, with Bible-based good thinking.
\n
END
\n
![\"Net](\"https://www.albertbakerfund.org/files/2020/04/CA_NetEffect_FB_square-600x600.jpg\")